Lauren Glickman  0:00  

For every developer that does community engagement poorly, guess what? Congratulations! You built a project in X County. You also built the last project in X County.

Nico Johnson  0:09  

Hey, hey, Solar Warriors! Welcome back. Today's episode is the second half of my conversation with Lauren Glickman, communications expert and CIA board member at large, and one of the sharpest communicators working in our industry. If you missed the first half, please cue that up. Obviously, they say part one and part two for a reason. There's some backstory here that we're going to talk about that might be worth capturing in the first episode, but they do kind of stand alone as separate episodes. Here's all you need to know. Walking in, Lauren's argument is that solar and farming were never actually in competition, and that agrivoltaics, which is solar plus agriculture on the same land, is not one simple thing. Grazing sheep, growing crops, planting pollinators even are wildly different businesses with different economics, and we keep writing policy as though these things are interchangeable. They're not. Today is the question: What do we do about that? We start with financial incentives and why they keep failing. Then Lauren makes the case for something I hadn't heard framed quite this way before: that the thing developers actually need isn't more money; it's certainty. Certainty that your permit won't die at a county meeting. Certainty that your tax treatment won't flip the day you energize the system. She walks through what Virginia is doing with its new agrivoltaics definition, meaning in the policy that is trying to be passed, the bills and the farm buy right statute. What does it mean? Also, she digs into what Maryland has done that she thinks is quite frankly a better precedent. Then we get into the part that stings a little. She was involved in a project where Encore Renewables, the company she's worked with for the last five years, planted pollinator meadows on projects that they later sold, and the next owner mowed them all down. Nothing illegal about it. Nothing that violated a permit condition. Just a promise that didn't hold up. Lauren's got a view, of course, on where those commitments actually belong legally, and it's probably not what you'd expect. But she's also got a playbook: compensate your farmers, show up before they need something. And there's a line that she borrows from our friend Mike Casey that I think every developer listening should write down: We need to stop ghosting our host communities after we energize. All right, let's get into it. I'm curious what you've observed around the economics along the spectrum from growing crops to grazing sheep to pollinators, and where creative policy options exist beyond simply sort of paying for qualifying projects or or what like what how are we thinking about the the policy umbrella that can help incentivize the kind of actions that we believe are positive for the community?

Lauren Glickman  2:55  

So I mean I will not get in trouble with any of my finance team and say that financial incentives are not valuable, but they're inconsistent because the finances for each of the different activities, whether it's pollinators or crops or running some sort of cattle or livestock, are astronomically different. And so, how you come up with a formula to try and incentivize all of that is, I would say, you're you've created an impossible, or at least math that goes well beyond something that a formula that I could come up with, and the finance gaps are different. You look at solar grazing with sheep; there is little, if I mean, there are some proactive adjustments you can make, but we started grazing on sites that were not designed for sheep. They were designed for commercial mowers, and they were able to be adapted to sheep with no no additional cost. And in the instance of you know where we happen to be located, the it actually ends up being financially

Nico Johnson  3:53  

more more valuable

Lauren Glickman  3:54  

for us to use sheep instead of a commercial mower because the commercial mowers didn't come out. You know, they throw up rocks. They do whatever. The sheep are better. They're just better at the job, and they happen to cost a little less, if not the same. So, what we don't need a financial incentive, like we don't need a tariff or a tax credit. And then, you know, but if you look at putting crops out, there, you know, there are people who are retrofitting crops on arrays that were not designed for it, and I'm excited to see that emerge as a segment of the industry. But if you really want to do crops, you want to partner really early with a farmer. You want to design an array for a specific crop that works for the farmer, that works for the climate, and even in the most ambitious of development timelines, you're talking about a couple of years that you now have a farmer who has committed before they might ever plant a crop, and then before they might have a yield, and with a you know crops growing up from the ground, what if they have a bad season? Like there's just a lot of other financial. So again, so if we financial incentives. Are I think complicated and not universally helpful, and sometimes they discourage because the bar to claim them is so high that they aren't actually an incentive.

Nico Johnson  5:09  

Interesting,

Lauren Glickman  5:10  

flipping it something that I think would be not a financial incentive, but I think would really drive action. I would say is if we could legislate or put policies in place that could provide a little bit more project certainty. So, if you qualify for agrivoltaics, there is a there was a separate effort last session that did not pass. I think because of lack of clarity and definition to add agrivoltaics to the farm by right statute, and so that would provide some policy certainty. Whereas that is a big challenge in the Commonwealth. The local authority over permitting is a fatal flaw for a lot of projects. There was permitting reform that went through last year, so it is now localities can't just have a blanket ban on solar anymore. They have to consider projects, and if they reject them, there's going to be a process to track that. So that's a step in the right direction. But if having agricultural integration in a way that's trackable and verifiable can help you with your permitting process, you know, that's going to de-risk a lot of projects in the Commonwealth. It's going to encourage a lot more agriculture. If there is an increase in cost, it's actually going to be worth it because a slightly more expensive project

Nico Johnson  6:33  

is better than no project. Yeah, yeah,

Lauren Glickman  6:35  

than a dead project. There are a lot of markets in the U.S. that are their energy policy, whether it's renewables specifically or just at large, is in transition. So Pennsylvania is another, I'll say, exciting market. I don't know if exciting is the word that all the developers on the ground there would use. Yeah, or interesting market, and you know they have a metering program that's in the that's being challenged with rate cases that is legislatively being examined and explored, and whenever a state transitions from one type of market to another, there is usually some sort of grandfathering period. Illinois is an example of a state that transitioned to community solar in a way that I think brought projects along. Maine is a example of where that was not as successful, and so if you can incorporate agrovoltaics, if that can help make you a preferred site that gets grandfathered in or ensures that you like puts you into the current framework, that type of pricing certainty and is like again, it doesn't cost the state anything.

Nico Johnson  7:45  

Yeah,

Lauren Glickman  7:45  

but that level of certainty again, it creates a contract between the developer and the community where they're making a firm commitment in order to get their permits and get locked into the existing framework that could change, and that's the that's just the reality of working in energy markets. They change, and that preserves you know your forecast and your model for the duration of it takes to actually build and energize this thing. So when you have a farm by right statute, it has a much more streamlined permitting process to get your applications to be able to build something. So if you want to build a farm, there's a buy right statute that basically allows you to do that. And so I don't think that solar should have a blank check that if you say you're gonna that we should be able. I think they're because we

Nico Johnson  8:34  

align and say we are farming and an extension of farming. We should bypass the line, for example, some

Lauren Glickman  8:39  

of those lines. But I think that there is an opportunity to come together to figure out in what instances this should allow us to move forward because it is preserving farmland, which is incredibly important. So I'm really excited to see that conversation continue to move forward. I think you know it is a mistake to try and tell farmers what they can and can't do with their land, and this is an opportunity to help rectify that. Yeah,

Nico Johnson  9:05  

I think the the underlying question around incentives is what are we what are we rewarding, right? Like tax incentives reward large corporations. I'm originally from South Carolina. I remember very well when companies like Caterpillar and BMW were enticed to Greensboro, which is now a thriving metropolis in South Carolina, because they knew that the long-term economic stimulus was going to be worth the short-term economic sort of investment or pain of giving them tax incentives. I think I'm sure Virginia made a similar calculus around. I mean, their data center alley. I'm sure Virginia made a similar calculus around data centers, and I'm just thinking out loud. Like, is there a reward mechanism that? What is it that we're rewarding when we look to align agrivoltaics as a pathway, like a success pathway, in places where we have run into to friction with a low. Community,

Lauren Glickman  10:00  

I think we should be thinking about what do we want to encourage, and oftentimes we are having this conversation, and it's like, well, what do we want to make sure doesn't happen? Who do we want to keep? Like, what nefarious or someone who's trying to cheat or scam the system are we trying to keep out, and I, I again, I don't. I just, I don't see a ton of that happening. The one thing that I do see happening, and I will call out the solar industry at writ large about this, is that solar as an asset, you know, Encore. We are pleased to be an IPP, so we own and operate our projects for, if all goes well, the entire life of the project, from you know when we energize all the way through decommissioning or re-energizing. But the bulk of our industry is very transactional. There are pure play developers who sell. Then once a project gets sold, it goes from one asset owner to another, and there is not. I think one of the things we really do want to reward, and we want to make sure happens, is durability to these commitments. So oftentimes, a developer going through the permit during a public hearing says, "We plan to do this. They make promises, but they are not legally obligated permit conditions, and so they build the project. They plant the pollen. Exactly

Nico Johnson  11:28  

this question, Lauren: How is performance demonstrated for when you qualify for some? Yeah,

Lauren Glickman  11:35  

and so I can speak to it for projects that we don't own anymore. Unfortunately, some of our pollinator meadows got mowed down by a future asset owner.

Nico Johnson  11:45  

Wow! Wow!

Lauren Glickman  11:45  

And we're devastated by that. But we have no nothing was done illegally. Nothing was

Nico Johnson  11:51  

and it wasn't. It wasn't tied to some permit condition, for example, or some incentive that was given that would then be revoked or owed back by the next owner got it. It

Lauren Glickman  12:02  

just was just something that was done because it was the right thing to do. It's a

Nico Johnson  12:06  

goodwill initiative, and

Lauren Glickman  12:07  

so

Nico Johnson  12:08  

rather than a requirement, yeah.

Lauren Glickman  12:10  

And it's and I would say that is a real problem. I don't think it's quote unquote ag washing, or but it is a lack of durability to these commitments, and I think that is something that there are two things. One, we could have policy that addresses it. The other thing too, though, which I think might be an easier-I don't know how many landowners are listening to the SunCast podcast-but I think we could be writing these commitments into the lease options, which are for the life of the asset. So there's a great organization, RIFA, the Renewable Energy Farmers Alliance Association, and they're working to better inform landowners. And I think landowners who really want to see their property stay in agricultural use when it's that lease option gets transferred to the new owner, and if that commitment's already in there, that will behold the new owner operator. Yeah, because a lot of times, too, the asset like the O and M contract that might be put in place, it could be good there for two or three years, and then in two or three years, when you renegotiate, that's an opportunity then again to see a change in durability for what was a a promise and not a legally binding commitment.

Nico Johnson  13:18  

It's also complex. It is all so complex. Rather than it's also complex, it is all so complex because you have to.

Lauren Glickman  13:25  

It's also complex. Yeah,

Nico Johnson  13:26  

because I have the question is how do you design these kinds of mechanisms without creating something that is so administratively burdensome that nobody basically nobody or that it's

Lauren Glickman  13:36  

enforceable too. Because the other thing too, someone asked a farmer asked me when I said we need to create some legally binding mechanisms, whether that's the lease option or the permit or in the power purchaser, like there are a lot of places you could put this. But they said so. New owner mows down your like. So what do we de-energize the pro? Like do unplug it until I was like probably not. Like because that's now something that's generating electricity, which keeps the lights on, which the

Nico Johnson  14:02  

utility is going to have a problem with. If you,

Lauren Glickman  14:04  

oh yeah, but I think there can be financial penalties that are easily enough to enforceable that make it not worth it to go down that road, right? So, so instead, you know, we're talking about the reward. So I think we want to reward and make sure we have project like commitment, durability, but then we need to have a big stick. If we don't, right? Like you know, that's you have carrots and you have sticks. That's how even and you have carrot sticks, right? But like so, like that's the reality of the situation is that for any for every you know promise that doesn't last the life of the project, our social license to operate gets that much more expensive, or if not revoked, you know. I talk about there's a big push around the best practices for community engagement, and there are some developers that kind of want to gatekeep their secret sauce for how to do community engagement. I will tell every person under. The sun, what community engagement activities that we have done that have been successful? Sure, because for every

Nico Johnson  15:06  

starting developer

Nico Johnson  15:07  

starting on SunCast,

Lauren Glickman  15:09  

yeah. But for every developer that does community engagement poorly, guess what? Congratulations, you built a project in X County. You also built the last project in X County, right? And so, if we only build one solar project per county in this country, like we're we're problem we're got a problem.

Nico Johnson  15:28  

What does it actually look like in practice for somebody preparing to walk into a county meeting to think about values based communication and what are components in the playbook that you've seen be effective?

Lauren Glickman  15:38  

So I have some amendments that I'd like to make to the playbook, sure, perfect. But so I think no one would disagree with me when I say when you go into the community that you should, you know, if you and hopefully you are planning to deploy agriculture, assuming it makes sense with your project, and you want to have a farmer present to advocate for and speak to the agricultural benefits and the farming they plan to bring to, and then the thing I will you should be compensating that farmer for their time, whether it's through an MOU or something else, because a lot of times if you're doing this correctly, you are bringing a farmer in before you have a permit. You might just have a site under control, and so there is no revenue for that farmer to come in and bring their time to help support your. So I would like to say always compensate your farmers.

Nico Johnson  16:30  

Yeah,

Lauren Glickman  16:31  

and I don't think that is universally accepted. And this is starting, so I am participating in the Solar Uncommon dialog on the stakeholder engagement group, and there is a list of best practices around pre what they're calling pre engagement, and I think that is a critical element of the playbook that needs to be fleshed out a little bit more. Which is how do we show up before it's transactional? How do we show up before we are required to have a listening tour or a town hall or a you know, and so often this means showing up before you even have a site under control. Yeah, and I don't know, like I don't have a perfect answer for what that looks like. Yeah, but I'm excited to see attention being drawn there because when you show up when you need something, you're already starting from a little bit of a trust hole. Whereas if you, you know, host an open house and invite everyone to learn why solar is a benefit to your community, and invite all the people who have parcels of land that you haven't reached out to yet. Hopefully, some of them come and show up. Hopefully, you get the head of the rotary and the business council, and you can talk about how the you know traffic to the feed store is going to go up. We're going to help bring in more vets. Like this is going to be great for the community. Before you even then, hopefully, someone's like, wow, that sounds great. Check out my 25 acres, right, or 50 acres. Like, we don't we don't pursue land acquisition in that manner, and I think that is is is just important, like because that's what builds the foundation of trust. So that when, especially, it would be amazing if solar companies, especially when you think at the scale we develop, so for a five megawatt project, I wish we had an HQ in every city that we operate in. But the reality is, we don't. We have one headquarter, and it's a lot of remote work. And so, how do you become trusted as a local partner when you aren't from there, and you know there, I've seen this sometimes. You know, when I drive through some rural areas, that if there again, there was probably a is a manufacturing plant, but I can see that that manufacturer, their logo's on the local high school as head one of the head of the boosters. I went to the grocery store. They had the banner on all of the shopping carts. Yeah, like the local farmers market was sponsored by them. So you know, there's not a single person in that town that doesn't know that this person cares. And so we need to treat that the same way for our operational projects. Is that you know someone should not drive by a solar field and think who who owns that? Like it should be obvious. They should be able to. We should be sponsoring the little league team. We should be at their annual trunk or treat. We should be at the local farm, hopefully at the local farmers market, selling the produce that's growing under the solar array, or or the the solar grazed land, totally. And I don't know that. So there's that pre engagement, and then there's that post energization. I think, as Mike Casey likes to call it, we need to stop ghosting our host communities after we energize. And so those are the two sort of pieces of the playbook that I would love to see. Fleshed out a little bit more for the industry at large.

Nico Johnson  20:03  

You mentioned Virginia. Are there other state policy experiments that you're paying attention to?

Lauren Glickman  20:08  

I'm following really closely what's going on in Maryland because they did also pass legislation this year, and we don't have any projects in Maryland, so I'm not as intimately involved in the challenges. But they are working on preserving the agricultural tax treatment of a parcel of land when solar is added, which I am familiar with, that we have something is prime farmland, and then the second you put solar on it, we don't actually change the soil composition, which is what makes it prime farmland. But the tax treatment flips from prime farm tax treatment to commercial, and we end up paying our landowners that difference in what they're losing in tax incentives every year, which is expensive. And so, in Maryland, and again, they pass legislation to be able to preserve the agricultural tax treatment. And the thing that I think they've done that's well that's well a good precedent setting. I would say is there's a pre-construction certification process, so there's like a clear checkbox of like what here are all the things that we are attesting to. So again, that durability exists, but then also that certainty of the developer that this isn't going to be changed. Like you have now gotten your tax certification for how the land is going to be treated. Again, all of these things, how they get implemented once the rulemakings go into place, might change a little bit. But I think it's a very promising framework because that tax abatement is is a really expensive process, so I'm following what's going on in Maryland pretty closely as well.

Nico Johnson  21:47  

You've been involved with SIA as a board member, but also as a contributor, as well as a WIA in the past. You've been a long time advocate and really understand the policy and the communications requirements there. I'm curious what working more closely and deeply with these national trade organizations has helped you understand about how our industry actually develops common policy positions that that serve as playbooks, for lack of a better word, but also support for the industry.

Lauren Glickman  22:16  

So I think there's room for improvement in this, at least in the regards of agrovoltaics, and I've provided this feedback too. I think as an industry, we're getting a lot better, but we are-I don't want to say woefully behind because that that cuts at my eternal optimism that I have in general. But it is really easy to go on the internet and type in solar moratorium, best moratorium, and like print something out and take it to your local town council, whoever it is. I think we are there are states like New York where if you want to find a best sighting or safety, you can get that from NICERDA. It is actually one of it's it's easier, I think, to find a constructive framework than it is a prohibitive one, but I would say unfortunately we're a little late to the party. So in providing some of those resources, but vastly improving. Not only is SIA working really well on this the at the state level, but SI two, the Solar and Storage Institute, the nonprofit branch, the research they're putting together. I think the work being done by the Solar Uncommon Dialog, and

Nico Johnson  23:27  

what is the Solar Solar Uncommon?

Lauren Glickman  23:30  

Solar Uncommon. So this idea of an uncommon dialog. I don't remember what industry it was used with before, but it's how you pull people, you create a table, basically where people who are have a propensity to potentially disagree are all have a seat at the table. So the uncommon dialog in the in the solar space is actually the the main parties. Obviously, the solar industry is represented, but then on the other side is the conservation community. So the Nature Conservancy is a big underlying underwriter of this effort. But you know, because solar ultimately development, right? Where do you develop things in the world, and where to like you know you? But the Nature Conservancy also understands. I'm gonna, even though I don't think we need to be talking about climate generally, but the Nature Conservancy understands the biggest threat to our natural resources and protected and precise spaces is climate change, not solar development. So how do we figure out a way to develop solar that protects our you know sacred and special and natural places, but while helps us address the climate crisis, and so there are a bunch of working groups. I, as I mentioned, I'm in the stakeholder and community engagement working group. There is an agrivoltaic and land use working group. There is a policy working group. There is, and

Nico Johnson  24:56  

who's creating all these working groups?

Lauren Glickman  24:59  

So. The Nature Conservancy is the big is like, but then so Dan Riker with I want to say it's Stanford, the Nature Conservancy, you know SI two is a one of the convening parties as well, and a lot of the work should be being released. I want to say this fall, so it would be really great-a really great future guest for the SunCast podcast would be to get a representative from the Solar Uncommon Dialog. I was a late to the party entrant. Did you find out about it? Well, I found out about it when they put out a press release, and of course, I like raised my hand and was like, "Pick me, pick me. I think a lot of people did, and so it took a little bit of pleasant persistence on my part to get myself a seat at the table. Yeah, and it's really it's really interesting to at least from my since I read a lot in the news when a solar project is not done well because it makes news when someone does something wrong, it is really nice to be. You know, there are, if not a couple dozen people in the working group that I'm in, and hearing about how they all, and of all sizes, small people working with indigenous communities, people to hear that this approach to community engagement that I am constantly talking about is not. I'm not alone in thinking about this. There are huge developers that are doing this right. There are mid-scale developers, and so I think the majority of solar developers probably are doing it right. But we're not talking about it in a, or we don't have the same songbook that we're all singing from, and so I'm excited to see the the outputs from this multi year engagement that should be coming out later this year.

Nico Johnson  26:48  

What would make you skeptical of a developer's agricultural PV claim?

Lauren Glickman  26:53  

So I would be skeptical if I depend. So I guess I would depending on what the claim is. But if so, let's say they were talking about as a foundational level planting pollinators, which is a really should not be a contentious form of agricultural activity. You you can get a conservation payment as a farmer for planting pollinators, and second, you put solar arrays on it. Somehow, that becomes less agriculturally significant. But pushing that aside, if someone wants to say we plan to do pollinator friendly, and then if you ask a follow up question, great. Who are you using for your seed mix? What is the ongoing management strategy? How do you plan to report out on it? If a developer can't answer those simple follow-up questions, that would create skepticism for me. In the same, you know, if oh, we're going to have sheep, great. Who is the farmer you plan to partner

Nico Johnson  27:52  

with? Right.

Lauren Glickman  27:53  

So I think having very what I would say basic answers to some of these questions are important. That every developer, if they want to go into a community and talk about this, should be able to answer. And again, I have spoken to some of my friends who do solar grazing, and they have no idea how it works. And I think everyone across their company should know: if you are grazing a solar site, you should be sending your people to an ASGA training about what to expect when you're expecting sheep. We're having one in October in Burlington. That's so good.

Nico Johnson  28:25  

What to expect when you're expecting? Oh my god,

Lauren Glickman  28:28  

I love that. It's amazing. It's such a good training, and it teaches you so much. I mean, I went into the training thinking I knew a ton about solar grazing because I probably knew more than most people, and I was calling them herds of sheep, they're flocks of sheep, right? So it's like, just I think when you, yeah, that would also give me pause if someone started talking about like the wool they're going to get from their herd of sheep that they're putting out on your solar array. Right, I would tell you that that person is selling you snake oil.

Nico Johnson  28:57  

You've learned so much, Lauren, and I also have learned a ton in the in the hour plus that we've been we've had this this discussion. I have so many follow up questions, but I'm going to need to bring it to a close here. I have just a few what I call quick charge questions, just short questions with a hopefully relatively brief response or retort on your part, and then a closing question to bring it all together. But before I do that, if there are folks who are still hopefully still listening, that's why we're talking. Who, if there are folks listening who want to connect with you, how do you like to be found? What's the easiest way?

Lauren Glickman  29:36  

I think finding me on LinkedIn is probably the easiest way.

Nico Johnson  29:39  

All right, quick charge. One talking point about solar and farmland that you would retire tomorrow.

Lauren Glickman  29:45  

I would retire the phrase "solar versus farming" in general. Like not even don't start from the negative frame forever and ever going forward. It's solar and farming.

Nico Johnson  29:58  

Perfect.

Lauren Glickman  29:58  

Not solar or farming.

Nico Johnson  29:59  

Yeah. Is there a state policy experiment you think deserves more attention?

Lauren Glickman  30:04  

I think what's going on in Maryland deserves a lot of attention. I love the the durability, the clear cutness. So I'm really optimistic to see where that goes.

Nico Johnson  30:14  

Something about agrivoltaics that you have reconsidered recently.

Lauren Glickman  30:18  

I have reconsidered the value of having farmers on your site day in and day out as like 24/7 365 asset managers-they're going to tell you if a cable has come loose or so unintended benefits. Yeah, is

Nico Johnson  30:34  

there one source of information outside of the usual solar policy bubble that makes you better at the work that you do,

Lauren Glickman  30:40  

Jess Gray, the founder and CEO of Solar Landscaping. She is constantly informing me of when I think there's a limit to what's possible. She makes that limit limitless.

Nico Johnson  30:52  

And finally, finish the sentence: community is much more likely to trust a developer when the

Lauren Glickman  30:57  

developer is authentic and honest and transparent in all of their practices.

Nico Johnson  31:03  

I want you to paint for me a vision of the future. If we get the policy, the economics, communication, and all the things we talked about over the last hour correct, what could the relationship between solar and American farmland look like 10 years from now? That would be difficult to imagine today.

Lauren Glickman  31:17  

What I'm going to paint is a positive picture, but I'm going to frame it as a scary one, yeah, which I see. So I read a lot of dystopian, like post-apocalyptic literature, and in all of them, renewables is what's keeping the grid alive, right? And so what I see, hopefully this is not in 10 years, but maybe is that the future I see is one where not only like renewables and food are just, it is not. We talk about solar plus storage as being an obvious partnership, right? And I see one in 10 renewables and food, renewables and agriculture is going to be that same cohesive, obvious partnership.

Nico Johnson  32:00  

Yeah, I love that. It's it's not only ubiquitous, but it is a coherent part of our community integration. We

Lauren Glickman  32:05  

don't even you wouldn't even think about looking at some sort of greenfield site, and it would be odd to drive by and not seeing a a co-located farm.

Nico Johnson  32:15  

Yeah,

Lauren Glickman  32:15  

that's the future. I mean, again, what a what an incredible future. And hopefully, it's not dystopian or post apocalyptic when we get there, but but even if we do, we're going to have farms and food in the apocalypse. So I'm ready for it.

Nico Johnson  32:27  

I love it. Lauren Glickman is the VP of Policy and Communications at Encore Renewable Energy. Lauren, it's always a pleasure to have you on. I hope that we can have you back soon.

Lauren Glickman  32:37  

Sounds great. Thank you so much for having me.

Nico Johnson  32:39  

All right, that's a wrap on this two-part conversation with my good friend Lauren Glickman, and now I am certain that you have a wealth of knowledge that you did not before on exactly not only what all is Agrivoltex, but how you can speak more eloquently about it in your home communities, inside your own development company, and with your stakeholders. Here's what I'm taking away: We spend an enormous amount of time in this industry arguing about incentives, what we should be paid to do, what we should be credited for. Lauren flipped that question on us. It's not what are we being paid for; it's what are we actually rewarding in this system. And right now, as an industry, we reward getting the project done. We don't reward keeping the promise 510, 15 years later after the asset has potentially changed hands a couple of times. And until we do, every broken commitment makes the next permit in that county more expensive for all of us. So if you missed part one, I hope you'll go back and listen. It published earlier this week, and it's where Lauren makes the case that solar is creating new farmland rather than just preserving it. It'll change how you talk about it. And if you're a developer, this is an invitation to roll up your sleeves. There is so much more you can offer a community than tax revenue and a handful of jobs. Lauren just gave you a whole list. I hope you'll reach out to her on LinkedIn if you want the rest of the story. She's always generous with her time. If you found this episode useful, please share it with someone in your community or in ours that you think will benefit. And let's keep pushing this industry forward in an honest, ethical, community-driven way. I hope that you'll also thank our sponsors. They help keep the lights on and pay the bills. So all I ask you to pay is attention. You can learn more about them at suncastmedia/sponsors. I hope that you will continue to tune in and that this has captured your attention as it did mine. Remember, you are what you listen to. Thanks again for showing up, Solar Warrior. It's half the battle.